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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Haha. Great.
We get Thomas Jefferson and John C Calhoun I one thread.
Calhoun was also against provisions of the Land Act of 1784, which was passed by Congrress and had the following provisions.
The Ordinance of 1784 (enacted April 23, 1784) called for the land in the recently created United States of America west of the Appalachian Mountains, north of the Ohio River and east of the Mississippi River to be divided into separate states.
It was adopted by the United States Congress of the Confederation under the Articles of Confederation.
The new states shall remain forever a part of the United States of America.
They shall bear the same relation to the confederation as the original states.
They shall pay their apportionment of the federal debts.
They shall in their governments uphold republican forms.
After the year 1800 there shall be neither slavery nor involuntary servitude in any of them.
Thomas Jefferson was the principal author. It eventually was extended westward with the Louisiana purchase and is the basis for the formation of the BLM.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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I disagree, the feds are ignoring them, in fact they are letting them come and go. This will end with little more than a whimper. The morons will end up looking silly. I would not rule out eventual arrests, but they will ley the clowns have their fun just like the occupy crowd and the black lives people did{/quote]
agreed
The Feds proved once and for all at Gettysburg who really rules the roost. The Mafia thought they could be top dogs, but where are they now? When push comes to shove, the US Gov't has the US Army. This incident does reveal some of the forces leading toward a possible breakup of the USA sometime in the future. Texas and Alaska, possibly Idaho, secede from the Union? Go check out what Senator John C. Calhoun has to say on the subject.
I don't know about Alaska, or Idaho seceding, but we can only hope that texass does.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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they should be out-occupied by the restofus burning man style smothering their protest with a stinking starvation crisis
A prescription burn?
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Let me see here. - OK
Gives the appearance of an all-white enclave.
BTW, I had no trouble accessing any of the links.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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A state can not cede from the nation without the permission from every other state.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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These guys are in trouble for lighting fires ... in a town called "Burns."
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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I'm a fan of starving idiocy of oxygen. If CNN, Fox, etc., would just ignore them, they'd eventually lose steam. Knuckleheads...
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MikeMc
Social climber
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Yallqaeda
Brilliant!
Perhaps the most annoying part is that very few, if any, locals are a part of this nonsense. I hope the locals turn their backs on these fools, and choose not to serve/sell them anything. Turn off the power, block the entrance/exits, and let them see what cold and hunger feel like.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Yallqueda for the best word yet!!
Should be Y'allqueda.
I'm stealing it!!
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overwatch
climber
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that is good. who came up with that? I must have missed it
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zBrown
Ice climber
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It is interesting that Federal law enforcers never seem to "go all in fear for their lives" like non-feds and civilians.
Take for example, the FBI. They just do the killing, investigate it themselvers, hold themselves faultless and get back to work.
“The F.B.I. takes very seriously any shooting incidents involving our agents, and as such we have an effective, time-tested process for addressing them internally,” a bureau spokesman said.
... from 1993 to early 2011, F.B.I. agents fatally shot about 70 “subjects” and wounded about 80 others — and every one of those episodes was deemed justified, according to interviews and internal F.B.I. records obtained by The New York Times through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit.
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Alois
Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
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"Militia"?
If they weren't white, you'd call them what they really are: armed terrorists
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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A state can not cede from the nation without the permission from every other state.
Not true, like so many of your posts. New Hampshire, for example, is one of several of the original states that joined the Union ONLY with the agreement that it could succeed at will, should it ever in its sole determination find the federal government to become oppressive and opposed to individual and state rights. It's constitution clearly specifies this fact, and that fact was the basis upon which it joined the Union.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/09/22/where-scotland-failed-could-new-hampshire-succeed/
"New Hampshire joined the union on condition that it remain a fully sovereign state free to break the tie with the United States if that link were no longer in its interest. Article 7 of the New Hampshire Constitution declares that “the people of this state have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent State; and do, and forever hereafter shall, exercise and enjoy every power, jurisdiction, and right, pertaining thereto, which is not, or may not hereafter be, by them expressly delegated to the United States of America in congress assembled.” Banning secession would break this original agreement."
While I think that the goofballs in OR are taking entirely the wrong tack, their case represents a growing unrest in the US with unlimited federal power. And what is a free person to do? Where is a free person to go to escape the ubiquitous reach of the feds? There is no better country, yet this nation has become a flat-out JOKE compared to the LIMITED government principles upon which it was founded.
In this nation today, you LITERALLY do not own anything. You cannot.
Think about it. Everything is subject to unilateral seizure by the IRS, without cause, without trial, and without a presumption of innocence. With your bank accounts frozen, your credit cut off, your house closed and locked to you, and your car(s) seized, THEN you have to take up your case in a federal court and PROVE that the IRS was mistaken; meanwhile your assets de facto belong to the government. The fact that the IRS rarely exercises this sweeping power does not mean they do not have it.
Property taxes perpetually keep your property leased-back to you, and failure to pay those taxes will get you evicted from your own property. In Chicago, for example, people are paying as much in property taxes as their mortgages. Entire neighborhoods of retirees are being literally taxed out of the homes they worked their lives to own outright. But they don't really own them, because the city just evicts them for their inability to pay their exorbitant property taxes.
Income taxed keep us individually beholden to the feds for every tiny detail of our lives, and THIS is what it always was about: control. There are many alternate tax schemes (such as a federal sales tax) that would be easy to implement and can be designed to be progressive, fair, and generate even more revenue than the current income tax scheme does.
SS and Medicare are the biggest, sickest pyramid/Ponzi scheme ever designed, and, again, it was about federal control rather than "security." I, for one, will see FAR less money back from the scheme than I've "invested" into it, and that's in the best case, with me living an unusually long life. And the feds keep changing the rules, in effect violating contractual obligations they had with generations of "contributors." Furthermore, I was signed up from birth, which violates every principle of contractual relations!
It goes on an on. The feds are about CONTROL over INDIVIDUALS, and 25% of people in this nation now want their particular state to secceed! MANY of us are SICK to death of federal invasion of EVERY DETAIL of our lives! And what are we to do about it? Where can we go to simple "opt out" and having nothing more to do with it.
I would GIVE UP entirely on what SS and Medicare owe me, if I could just be FREE of this nightmare. I would go to ANY state that would secede from the feds.
And what's with calling the OR group "terrorists" and charging them as "terrorists"? Since when are mere arsonists "terrorists"?
That term is now bandied about with terrifying frequency, particularly when you consider that being called a "terrorist" effectively enables the feds to SIDESTEP typical legal processes!
Look, I'm not sympathetic with the goofballs' tactics or even basic cause. But I also have NO sympathy with the FEDS!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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The feds are likely trying to deal with this lightly. The weather up there is working for them, and they have certainly learned about unintended blowback from Ruby Ridge and Waco. It is pretty easy for things to go south when dealing with people seeking the fame of martyrdom.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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These members of Y'all Qaeda are trying to fight for yeehawd.
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Banquo
climber
Amerricka
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What a buncha effing retards.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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What MB, you want to escape the government's all knowing, all controlling clutches. Shame on you for ignoring the programming.
Myself, I'm just hoping for a good old fashioned military coup typical of the third world which we are rapidly morphing to. Must be that wealth redistribution and population control we are paying the U.N. to promote.
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Gary
Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
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"New Hampshire joined the union on condition that it remain a fully sovereign state free to break the tie with the United States if that link were no longer in its interest. Article 7 of the New Hampshire Constitution declares that “the people of this state have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent State; and do, and forever hereafter shall, exercise and enjoy every power, jurisdiction, and right, pertaining thereto, which is not, or may not hereafter be, by them expressly delegated to the United States of America in congress assembled.” Banning secession would break this original agreement."
Does the New Hampshire constitution take precedence over the US constitution?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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What if it turns out that the wildlife ends up being no worse off with these militia guys occupying the headquarters than it was when The Feds ran the place?
Maybe then we'd want to re-think the whole idea of government wildlife management.
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