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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jan 28, 2010 - 11:42pm PT
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Q. Why did god quit drinking whiskey?
A. It made him mean!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 28, 2010 - 11:50pm PT
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I thought that literalists believed that all of the Bible was the word of God....
not just Genesis... so how does a Christian choose what to take literally and what not to take literally? I didn't think you could cut any of it and, say, just read the New Testament.
Isn't that the point of a "literal interpretation" of the Bible?
and also the source of dealing with those pesky instructions on who to stone, etc...
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 28, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
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Norton- "If you realy love Jesus then He insists that you abandon your wife and children for Him."
That is an out right lie Norton.
He is talking about anyone that has been rejected by his or her family for excepting Christ.
Such as is the practice in many Islamic country's where they risk being killed for rejecting Mohamed/Allah/Islam, and becoming followers of Jesus Christ.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:03am PT
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Thanks for the support, guys.
You know who you are, I'm keeping track...
“Our ignorance is not as vast as our failure to use what we know”.
 M. King Hubbert
the geologist who warned a long time ago about "peak oil"
a concept every informed citizen should know about...
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:06am PT
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Ed- "who to stone"
Jesus- "He who is with out sin cast the first stone."
Jesus- "You must be born again"
Jesus took all the world's sin upon Himself.
Ed, are you prepared to meet Him face to face?
Or are you without sin?
Are you prepared to hear "I don't even know you!"
?
That is what He has to offer, He has paid the penalty for YOUR sins.
And you reject His gift of eternal life.
= Eternal Darkness/Eternal Death!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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It's a narrative, a story, we've all heard it.
Basta. Enough already! Take a clue from the Muslims.
Get yourself on the right side of history, adapt!
EDIT Norton, shift from argument to construction.
Build! Build! Build! What are your ideas about bringing innovation to
a new kind of belief discipline?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 12:09am PT
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TRip, get your act together.
Either you believe what is written in the bible is the world of god,
or you do not.
You cannot have it both ways, you do not get to pick and choose what
god wrote and what some dumbass human wrote.
You buy it all as the work of god or you say it is like santa and the easter bunny.
Trip, do not tell me the bible is a LIE.
I gave YOU chapter and verse, over and over, you just will not admit
that the bible, as written by god, is FULL of god telling YOU to kill
children, to have slaves, to rape women, on and on.
The bible is an instruction book from god on how to kILL AND TORTURE.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 12:14am PT
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Natural Disasters are God's Wrath
The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8 NLT)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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God Will Kill Ethiopia
"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist. (Zephaniah 2:12-15 NLT)
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 29, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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God Will Kill Everyone
"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship. I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear. For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars. They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too. So now I will destroy them! And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do. They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings." (Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:16am PT
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I don't know how to respond to you 777
In my life I have always tried to act with empathy to my fellow beings, and hoped they would do the same. And I have made an effort to fully appreciate this short time of life, and to do something with it.
I have not always succeeded in either of those two goals. But I don't think I have badly failed either.
My understanding of the universe is that that is all I can or have to worry about.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:29am PT
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Norton- "If you really love Jesus than He insists that you leave..."
INSISTS!
"And everyone who has left houses or brothers and sisters mothers and fathers...for my names sake"
He never INSISTED for anyone to do such a thing. The reality is some will be persecuted to such an extent that they will have to leave. And I just gave you an excellent example of current situations that are in effect in this world today...
Norton, you put words into the mouth of Jesus Christ that are not true.
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:38am PT
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Ed!
With all due respect Ed I believe you are an upstanding individual, perhaps par excellance. I am sure you have(or hope you have)led a much better life than myself. But Jesus stated "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." He states that to even "look at a women with lust" is to be guilty of rape. It is a holy God we are dealing with.
Only God can convict your spirit of this. Spirit to spirit.
Hopefully He will open some of your eyes(spiritual eyes), eyes to the true nature of your heart/soul.
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jstan
climber
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Jan 29, 2010 - 12:57am PT
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But 777! Did you not say that god forgives? Right upthread.
Is it too much to expect god to realize snakes can be quite persuasive and that being a god he really should forgive Adam and Eve? Thereby eliminating all of this problem of original sin you say hangs over poor Ed's head?
How is Ed being treated fairly by a god who holds him liable because someone, not even Ed, ate an apple 6000 years ago.
I know the logic and equity of this story are immensely powerful.
But really.
Couldn't you forgive Ed? You have talked to god so I am sure you and god could work something out, for Ed at least.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Jan 29, 2010 - 01:14am PT
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Jesus is more than willing to forgive all who come to Him!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jan 29, 2010 - 01:22am PT
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jstan!
Ed is liable for Ed. That is why I asked if he had sinned(He without sin, cast the first stone...)^^^. He honestly stated that he(Ed) is not perfect. Only Jesus led the perfect life, only He can stand in Ed's place. Ed has to ask for forgiveness,it is a gift...Ed has to except it.
I can't except it for Ed.
I pray, that is how I talk to God.
I will pray for Ed.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 29, 2010 - 01:28am PT
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Scientists know the answers we have, but more important they have a pretty good idea of the answers we don't. Religious folks on the otherhand, claim to have an answer for everything. That's the absolute truth here and the essential problem with religion. Is there a question Gobee can't answer with a quote? I very much doubt it.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jan 29, 2010 - 01:30am PT
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Rok... I certainly don't hate, and I can't imagine jstan hating... it seems a bit extreme to call criticism of a life philosophy "hating"
And I believe it is an individual decision, choosing a life philosophy, as it is the individual who deals with the consequences of that choice. So while I appreciate the concern for the disposition of my eternal soul, I make my own choices and will deal with the consequences of those choices.
My father taught me that a long time ago.
"I'm the one who has to die
When it's time for me to die
So let me live my life
The way I want to"
Jimi Hendrix If 6 Were 9
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jstan
climber
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Jan 29, 2010 - 02:32am PT
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Telling someone you don't really know that well that they will burn in hell for eternity is a poor way to strike up a conversation, I think. If one tries to be open minded one does not immediately respond in a direct and confrontational manner. Instead you say, "OK show me what convinces you that this is so."
In all the time I have been on earth no one has shown me anything credible. I'm still waiting. On ST I have continued to ask for credible data.
I will admit it is tiring continually to be warned of my fate by persons who supply no credible response to my questions. Frankly I do not feel this is the kind of treatment a responsible person would give to someone they feel is an adult.
A three to five year old child - perhaps. But I have to tell you. I have not been carded in a rather long time.
I have actually learned quite a bit from this thread. I have learned that no two people use the word christian in the same way. Endless divergent opinions as to who is a christian and who isn't. Oddly enough, as I posted earlier regarding the Sunni and Shia schism, even that offshoot of this thread's subject theology have the same arguments, there with fatal consequences for the unlucky. I call it "this thread's subject theology" because I may not use the word christian. Words without agreed upon meaning should not be used by those hoping for useful result.
In contradistinction to the schism we are experiencing here on ST, the Sunni Shia schism has been producing fatal results for going on 1500 years. I'll repeat an earlier comment.
You know something is very wrong whenever you see so little improvement.
Faith is supposed to produce something better - right?
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