Armed Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ

Jan 4, 2016 - 05:39pm PT
so maybe this has been covered but how do y'all see this ending? Seems the Feds are going to do everything but make a scene.

Seems like it ends peacefully or guns-a-blazin'. (you can give me a no sh#t sherlock for that observation)

It appears the Feds are not going to push the issue so if guns start firing it starts with the domestic terrorists. Then anything could happen.

Let's say it starts peaceful and ends peaceful. Then what?

Arrest? On what charges?

Don't arrest. We the People of the United States of America are supposed to once again forgive these crimes

thoughts on what happens to these terrorists once they freeze and give up?

SALT LAKE CITY — LDS Church leaders on Monday plainly and roundly denounced a militia whose organizers cited Mormon scriptures in the months before they seized a federal facility in Oregon on Saturday.

"While the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a church matter," the church said in a statement, "church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis. We are privileged to live in a nation where conflicts with government or private groups can — and should — be settled using peaceful means, according to the laws of the land."

The DOJ report nonetheless accounts for the vehemence of the response to the shooting, and also explains why so many people didn't consider the particular facts in that particular shooting as important as the larger history.

I know the usual suspect will accuse me of my usual false equivalence, but I see the same thing happening on this issue. Those supporting the occupiers are using their perceptions of history between the occupiers and their supposed supporters and the government as justification for the trespass/occupation.

I don't hold myself immune from this. I simply don't see any justification in current American history for occupation of anything by anyone who doesn't own it. That's true whether it's Justin Herman Plaza in San Francisco, Alcatraz Island by native Americans, or an abandoned facility in Oregon. The use of extra-governmental force threatens a free society, wherever we use that force.

Oregon activists picked the wrong battle, militia leaders say

Self-styled militia members who seized federal property in rural Oregon in an effort to galvanize opposition to the U.S. government appear to have made a tactical error - potential allies say they picked the wrong battle.

As armed anti-government activists occupied a snowy wildlife refuge for a third day to call attention to a land-use dispute, militia leaders from similar groups across the country criticized the seizure of federal land and a building.

The protesters have said they aim "to restore and defend the Constitution" to protect the rights of ranchers and ignite a national debate about states' rights and federal land-use policy they hope could ultimately force the federal government to release tracts of Western land.

Their occupation of the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge comes as the number of paramilitary groups is on the rise in the United States, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, a legal advocacy group that tracks their numbers.

But the latest call to arms appears to have failed to resonate with like-minded groups whose support would be crucial for creating a coalition of armed militia members substantial enough to thwart a law enforcement operation.

"There's a better way to go about things," said Brandon Curtiss, president of Three Percent of Idaho, a militia group that has been involved in the dispute. "If you want to make a change like that, you need to get the county citizens behind you to go through the proper channels."

The protesters have rallied behind Oregon ranchers Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond, who were found guilty of arson on public land near their property. They were initially sentenced to 12 months in prison, below the federal minimum for arson, but a U.S. judge raised the sentences to five years.

The Hammonds, who turned themselves in as planned on Monday at a federal prison in California, have said they do not support the protesters or their leader, Ammon Bundy, whose father, Cliven Bundy, was at the center of a 2014 standoff with the government over grazing rights in Nevada that ended with federal agents backing down in the face of about 1,000 armed militiamen, many on horseback.

The Pacific Patriot Network, an umbrella group for militias in the region, said it did not support seizing federal property even if it understood the underlying frustration with the federal government. "This land use issue is decades old and it's boiling up in frustration. That's what you're seeing," spokesman Joseph Rice said.

The Oath Keepers, another paramilitary group that participated in the 2014 Bundy ranch dispute in Nevada, also distanced itself from the latest standoff.

'WISH TO HELL HE HADN'T DONE THIS'

Some militia leaders said Bundy was using the dispute to provoke the federal government with little regard for the local community.

"Here you have a guy who believes he's on a mission from God. What the Hammonds want and what the community wants is immaterial," said Mike Vanderboegh, a founder of the III Percent Movement, which draws its name from the notion that only 3 percent of Americans actively participated in the Revolutionary War.



Vanderboegh and other leaders said they worried Bundy would provoke a violent response from the U.S. government similar to the 1993 siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, that ended in the deaths of 76 people.

Three Obama administration officials said federal authorities had been told to avoid a violent confrontation, in line with official U.S. policy after the deadly clashes at Waco and in 1992 at Ruby Ridge, Idaho

Armed U.S. paramilitary groups, which had been on the wane since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, have seen their ranks swell in recent years, driven by fears among the far right that President Barack Obama will threaten gun ownership and erode local rights.

The movement has also been energized by confrontations between ranchers, miners and federal regulators in the Western United States, where the government owns vast stretches of land.

The Southern Poverty Law Center estimates there are 276 active militia groups today, one-third more than before last year's standoff.

The latest incident began after militia groups from Oregon and Idaho staged a peaceful march in the nearby city of Burns on Saturday to protest what they see as heavy-handed management by bureaucrats with little interest in local concerns.

Other militia leaders declined to question Bundy's motives but said he stood little chance of getting the federal government to back down.

"If you want me to demonize this guy, I won't do it," said Bob Wright, a commander of the New Mexico Militia.

"But I wish to hell he hadn't done this," he said. (Reporting by Andy Sullivan in Washington; Editing by Jason Szep and Peter Cooney

Those guys are standing in the cold so you stoopid do nothing pussy finger wagging crankloons have something to bitch about ......

Those guys are standing in the cold so you stoopid do nothing pussy finger wagging crankloons have something to bitch about ......

Ammon Bundy runs a Phoenix-based company called Valet Fleet Services LLC, which specializes in repairing and maintaining fleets of semitrucks throughout Arizona.

On April 15, 2010—Tax Day, as it happens—Bundy's business borrowed $530,000 through a Small Business Administration loan guarantee program. The available public record does not indicate what the loan was used for or whether it was repaid. The SBA website notes that this loan guarantee was issued under a program "to aid small businesses which are unable to obtain financing in the private credit marketplace."

The government estimated that this subsidy could cost taxpayers $22,419. Bundy did not respond to an email request for comment about the SBA loan.