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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Feb 12, 2016 - 07:33pm PT
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He came to troll
But stayed to rant
Happi, I tend to agree with that statement.
Looks like Harney county has a Migratory Bird festival in April.......cool.
http://www.migratorybirdfestival.com/
edit ,WyoRockMan, thanks for the link, good long read-even with my ADD...;)..
............................................................................................................................................................................................................................vvv
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kattz
climber
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Feb 12, 2016 - 08:04pm PT
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Year 2045: public lands are the only ones not yet sold to Chinese buyers to park their fraud cash....might happen.
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franky
Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
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Feb 12, 2016 - 08:09pm PT
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That hcn essay is good. He makes some connections that are convincing and not discussed elsewhere.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Feb 12, 2016 - 11:38pm PT
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^-- agreed. That is a skillful piece of writing — and thinking.
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perswig
climber
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Feb 13, 2016 - 02:33am PT
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That was a fascinating and well-constructed read, WyoRockMan. Thanks for the link.
Dale
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Feb 13, 2016 - 04:27am PT
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WyoRockMan and Fritz,
Thanks for sharing the link to Hal Herring's brilliant essay.
In an age of journalistic sensationalism Herring approaches this mess with honesty and paints a picture of what he saw and learned from people at the scene.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Feb 13, 2016 - 05:47am PT
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Good Read.
I find it interesting how all of the articles, and a lot of the comments on here focus on the pure stupidity of the Bundy clan idiots, while very conveniently side stepping the reality of the Hammond case. The idicoy of the Bundy crankloons was covered on page one, although its fun pointing out their stupidity, I agree.
Oh, they will go on about how they don't believe in mandatory minimum sentences as though they were throwing a dog a bone to make it sound like the Hammond's got a raw deal. As if the sentencing were the one transgression of the mean people of the forest service and blm.
But no one wants to touch the story of the decades of coercion by the public land managers to squeeze the Hammonds and their (previous) neighbors off their property.
Carry on and don't mind that elephant in the room. His crap doesn't stink if you don't acknowledge it either.
Looks like I'll be in Burns tomorrow shooting jacks off of haystacks. I'll look in on the refuge and make sure its still a model of cooperation between the federal government and local ranchers so you all can rest easy.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Feb 13, 2016 - 09:11am PT
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Happi, I tend to agree with that statement.
Birdwatcher Nita,
So, when someone comes on here and offers an opinion that deviates from the "Libtard Sh#t Show Drum Circle" they get labeled as a troll?
But the One Liner Retards that litter the pages of this and other threads are just keeping the faith? And subsequently aren't worth calling out?
Man, you guys really get thrown for a wobbler when someone comes in and interrupts your socialist progressive leg humping and ball cupping sessions.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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Feb 13, 2016 - 09:30am PT
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Hey, Eggospitter, like the literary masterpieces you post are any more significant? you come blasting on to the scene with shotgun hulls spilling from your pockets, another genius on everything, just what this site needed, like inhaling a deep breath of Chinese air.
There, that is three lines, retard... maybe a line or two now and then is all the time some people want to spend
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Feb 13, 2016 - 09:42am PT
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I find it interesting how all of the articles, and a lot of the comments on here focus on the pure stupidity of the Bundy clan idiots, while very conveniently side stepping the reality of the Hammond case. The idicoy of the Bundy crankloons was covered on page one, although its fun pointing out their stupidity, I agree. Well at least we agree on Bundy stupidity.
Oh, they will go on about how they don't believe in mandatory minimum sentences as though they were throwing a dog a bone to make it sound like the Hammond's got a raw deal. As if the sentencing were the one transgression of the mean people of the forest service and blm. I think as many people will attribute the transgression to a right wing congress writing poorly written laws and prosecutors and federal judges who follow the laws as written, something the "tough on crime " folks are always screaming for and what brought about the mandatory sentences to begin with. I don't see any history where the stupidity of the law was challenged before white ranchers got caught up in it, but I welcome a link to your pointing out how stupid the law was before the Hammond case.
But no one wants to touch the story of the decades of coercion by the public land managers to squeeze the Hammonds and their (previous) neighbors off their property.
Here you invent a narrative that never existed. There is no record of any Feds squeezing going on against the Hammonds, though there is plenty of squeezing that went on. The vast majority of the refuge land was purchased from Swift Foods, who sold it when it was no longer profitable due to overgrazing and using so much lake water you could camp on the lake bed, and squatters did. The Hammonds bought almost all their land from the former French estate and from the Government. Swift bought the land from Peter French's Holdings after he was assassinated by a rancher mad at French for fencing off land and water access that wasn't his. He in turn, bought land from the Government under fraudulent practices and by squeezing out poorer ranchers , sometimes with threats of violence.
And the Feds, of course, stole all 1.8 Million acres from the Paiutes by reneging on a treaty and not keeping out white settlers as they promised. The county this all happened in is named after a white general the Sioux called woman killer, and not for his good looks.
He killed Sioux women and Children at Ash Hollow, and beat his own slave girl to death for losing a set of keys.
Carry on and don't mind that elephant in the room. His crap doesn't stink if you don't acknowledge it either. follow your own advice.
Looks like I'll be in Burns tomorrow shooting jacks off of haystacks. I'll look in on the refuge and make sure its still a model of cooperation between the federal government and local ranchers so you all can rest easy. A great patriotic goal. Be sure to tell the first Fed you see how it's not their land. You'll be doing a great service to the constitution. In a few years if the land is sold off, you'll be doing your shooting at a gun range because the Koches and the Chinese will keep you off their land.
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kattz
climber
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Feb 13, 2016 - 10:06am PT
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Isn't Facebook a fascist/socialist government-controlled brainwash and spying tool? Cliven sure loves it, and it's free. (starting to feel backwards as don't have a facebook account...even Cliven got one)
I'm glad Michelle Fiore is actually wearing something in all the press conferences they're holding now.
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John M
climber
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Feb 13, 2016 - 10:07am PT
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But no one wants to touch the story of the decades of coercion by the public land managers to squeeze the Hammonds and their (previous) neighbors off their property.
somewhere way back in this thread is an article which explains the fallacy of your notion that the Hammonds were abused by public land managers. It was a well written and balanced article about the history of the area and the cooperation that has been created in that area. It explained the fallacy that the government forced anyone out. It explained that drought and over grazing forced most cattlemen out. But I don't feel like trying to find it.
I do agree that we need to be talking about the very real ways government is out of balance, but as the very well written article linked by wyorockman, its hard to have that conversation when the main players can only argue that the constitution is all that we need, and when they don't even understand the history behind what has happened in the area. And when there is so much misinformation out there.
Has the government overstep and expanded? I believe so. In what ways.. I can't really say because I'm not that well informed and we haven't really had that conversation yet. I do believe and did believe when mandatory sentences were created that they would be a problem, but I also understood that when judges can be influenced by the wealthy and when the wealthy can get slaps on the wrists for things that the middle class and the poor get much stiffer sentences, then we had a problem. Mandatory sentences was the solution. It was a poor solution. We needed to hold our judges accountable for their sentences.
....
I agree with everyone who said this article linked by wyorockman is a great article.
http://www.hcn.org/articles/malheur-occupation-oregon-ammon-bundy-public-lands-essay
....
Edit: I want to add that the whole atmosphere of the forum makes it almost impossible to have a reasoned conversation about the issues that face this country. I try to look past peoples snide tones, but it wears me out.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 13, 2016 - 10:17am PT
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^^^^ Amen, John.
Good article in today's LATimes about the divisiveness engendered by this in Burns.
Like here, the reasonable people are hated by both sides.
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WyoRockMan
climber
Grizzlyville, WY
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Feb 13, 2016 - 10:23am PT
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I want to add that the whole atmosphere of the forum makes it almost impossible to have a reasoned conversation about the issues that face this country. I try to look past peoples snide tones, but it wears me out.
Not just this forum, but a very wide majority of all internet lines of communication have caustic atmospheres hampering reasoned conversation.
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Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
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Feb 13, 2016 - 10:44am PT
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I don't see any history where the stupidity of the law was challenged before white ranchers got caught up in it, but I welcome a link to your pointing out how stupid the law was before the Hammond case.
While the author of the book "Just Mercy" never call the law "stupid," he does provide an extremely compelling description for it's being cruel and unusual punishment. An important book in the fight to right the imbalance of justice being weighed against low-income black citizens of the US.
http://bryanstevenson.com/the-book/
However, that is about African-Americans, and so not really of interest to those who "care" about government overreach when it comes to public lands.
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kattz
climber
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Feb 13, 2016 - 10:59am PT
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Government commits plenty of overreach and trespasses. US government is, in fact, semi-fascist, in my view. (and yes, I do believe Facebook is a spying and brainwash tool, engineered by certain elite with very specific purposes)
Occupation of the refuge, however, is nothing but the exploitation of the above fact by a certain group, for the sake of their private greedy little interests (their own little private dream island of socialism, everything free and cheap...for them). Franlky, I don't care about the Hammonds....whatever're the predicaments of the poor wealthy ranchers or some poor wealthy gamblers or entrepreneurs... they knew damn well what they were doing, throwing these matches and probably this was also a message for the "Feds" about whose territory they were on....tease a lion enough...get your head bit off. Life is not fair.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Feb 13, 2016 - 11:08am PT
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(and yes, I do believe Facebook is a spying and brainwash tool, engineered by certain elite with very specific purposes
Better check your belly button lint for radio tranceivers.
As though the profit motive wasn't sufficient to explain FB.
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kattz
climber
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Feb 13, 2016 - 11:15am PT
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A lot of things are profitable...but not all are allowed to bloom and gain influence to the degree Facebook has. It started off as a game, then it was purely for profit, but eventually it became a whole lot more, with certain social engineers joining in. The influence on public and dependency that currently exist would be quite a dangerous thing, for the government--if it wasn't controlled. It's a mass media tool, and just like CNN, etc, it serves the same purposes, only it has spying capacity as well.
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Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
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Feb 13, 2016 - 11:51am PT
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1964:
American politics has often been an arena for angry minds. In recent years we have seen angry minds at work mainly among extreme right-wingers, who have now demonstrated in the Goldwater movement how much political leverage can be got out of the animosities and passions of a small minority. But behind this I believe there is a style of mind that is far from new and that is not necessarily right-wing. I call it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy that I have in mind. In using the expression “paranoid style” I am not speaking in a clinical sense, but borrowing a clinical term for other purposes. I have neither the competence nor the desire to classify any figures of the past or present as certifiable lunatics. In fact, the idea of the paranoid style as a force in politics would have little contemporary relevance or historical value if it were applied only to men with profoundly disturbed minds. It is the use of paranoid modes of expression by more or less normal people that makes the phenomenon significant.
Of course this term is pejorative, and it is meant to be; the paranoid style has a greater affinity for bad causes than good. But nothing really prevents a sound program or demand from being advocated in the paranoid style. Style has more to do with the way in which ideas are believed than with the truth or falsity of their content. I am interested here in getting at our political psychology through our political rhetoric. The paranoid style is an old and recurrent phenomenon in our public life which has been frequently linked with movements of suspicious discontent…
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