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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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Ok Chaz, but remember how much better John McCain would have done if he were Black
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:17pm PT
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Obama may have done better if he were black, too.
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giegs
climber
Tardistan
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:23pm PT
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Repost...
By various estimates, there were about 500 to 800 people camping in Chapman and Lownsdale Squares as part of Occupy Portland. A similar range of estimates suggests that between 4000 and 6000 people showed up to protest the eviction. And approximately 10,000 people attended the initial demonstration in which the camp was established. Thus I think it's a bit inaccurate when people use the words "Occupy Portland" as though they only refer to the camp. Clearly the network of supporters that the camp represented is much larger than the camp itself. Other than housing some homeless people, the camp basically served three functions: 1.) It was a persistently concrete and visible symbol that turned what might have been a sporadic or incidental protest into a "movement" with a public identity. However, I think what you might call the "brand" is now pretty well established--people will know what you're talking about if you say the words "Occupy Wall Street" or "Occupy Portland" even without the camp there. 2.) It served as a staging ground for demonstrations, but this can mostly be done via networking now that the relevant networks exist. 3.) It served as a gathering point and a meeting place for both planning/etc. comittees and members of the general public who wanted to attend General Assemblies. Most of the committees were already meeting offsite before the eviction order was even publicized, and discussions were then and are now still underway about leasing or otherwise acquiring non-residential office space in which the committees can meet. [pesquisa: here is where you make an Animal Farm joke] General Assemblies happen on the same schedule as before, but have been moved to another public square which is something like 6 blocks from where the camp was.
A lot was made of how protesters in Iran, Egypt, etc. were using social media and portable internet technology to organize and mobilize supporters without having a readily identifiable "center" dispensing information and marching orders, and I think OWS started with an intent to emulate this to some degree. In Iran, this kind of organizing has the obvious advantage that if your movement depends on a "center" (a leader, institution, party, etc.) that center becomes a visible and high-value target for your opposition to attack with communications censorship, pre-emptive arrests, etc. A "repost this" message on Facebook is much harder to stop.
In the U.S. the analogous obstacle isn't the same kind of overt repression--no one, to my knowledge, has tried to block or shut down the OWS website for "instigating unlawful assemblies"--but rather a kind of "soft power" equivalent in which your "center" will be subjected to public smears and ad hominem attacks* to obfuscate your message, while government bureaucrats will manipulate "Time, Place, and Manner" regulations to minimize the impact of your demonstrations.**
OWS rather skillfully circumvented this machinery and succeeded in elevating its ideas to front-page status by showing that a large number of people who agree with those ideas can simply decide to converge on a targeted location and refuse to leave. Whether or not the entity "Occupy Wall Street" will amount to a successful political movement, the tactic has clearly sent some anxiety running through the halls of power.*** The adoption of a more guerrilla-style method of employing this tactic is probably feasible and perhaps more effective at this point--basically, "You know we're out there--don't piss us off or you'll get [cue sinister music] ... occupied."
I was at the OP camp for the eviction deadline. Basically we held the police off for a couple of hours through sheer force of numbers. Yes, they came back after everyone left and cleared the camp anyway, but a point was made for those who cared to see it. The city doesn't have enough jails to house 4000 people on the same night, so arresting us wasn't an option and they knew it. With really remarkably few exceptions (I heard of maybe one or two verifiable instances of protester aggression in that whole crowd all night) it was a very large and entirely nonviolent assembly of citizens simply claiming the right to be there by being there. The only way to make us stop would have been to lay into us with clubs en masse or start lobbing canisters of gas into the park--which would have a.) made them look like supreme as#@&%es under the circumstances and b.) probably resulted in a bunch of lawsuits--oh, and the department was already under federal investigation for civil rights violations.
So they did the smart thing and backed off. With enough turnout, you can do this anywhere. (And you,, and you, and you!) Hopefully the signal-noise ratio in the message being broadcast this way starts to improve, but "you can't evict an idea."
I've seen this sign around at OP rallies-- "F*#k Us and We MULTIPLY"
*Look up reports that a DC lobbying firm was soliciting Wall St. banks who might be interested in paying for a smear campaign against OWS supporters. Reportedly there have been no takers as of yet.
**Bush, for example, rather infamously did the latter to antiwar protesters--at his request, city authorities would often declare everything within a few miles of any public appearance by the President to be a "Security Perimeter" within which they could control public entry, exit, and movement based on whatever criteria they deemed appropriate. To comply with the "Time, Place, and Manner" doctrine of First Amendment interpretation, they would declare small areas somewhere in the vicinity-- completely enclosed by fences and typically located some distance from the event or personage being protested--to be "Free Speech Zones," meaning anyone anticipating a need to invoke 1st amendment protections for what they wished to do had to do it inside the fence. Journalists were sometimes told by authorities that if they wished to enter the "protest cage" (e.g. to interview demonstrators about their views) they would not be allowed to leave it. If you ever see someone at a protest toting a weathered-looking sign with an outline of the United States labeled "Free Speech Zone" it was probably made in response to this policy. (And its implicit argument that government authorities get to determine when and where the 1st Amendment exists, rather than members of the public exercising their 1st Amendment rights--the free speech arguments around OWS campsites are non-trivial, IMO, for this reason, although the campers would have a low likelihood of prevailing in most courts at present.)
***I don't think the violent crackdowns are part of a conspiracy so much as a generalized pissing contest--no government anywhere wants its citizens to get the idea into their heads that compliance with laws is in any way voluntary. Clearly there has been excessive force employed, but it's kind of part of the psychological game theory involved--if protesters comply with an order to stop protesting, they're conceding a victory to "the system;" if "the system" doesn't succeed in gaining compliance it feels it has let someone undermine the authority which is the essence of its existence. Hence pepper spray and rubber bullets come out over offenses that are roughly the equivalent of jaywalking. I seen it.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:42pm PT
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Movers And Sheriff’s Deputies Refuse Bank’s Order To Evict 103-Year-Old Atlanta Woman
By Zaid Jilani on Nov 30, 2011 at 11:15 am
103-year-old Vita Lee. (Photo credit: WSB TV)
Yesterday, a Deutsche Bank branch in Atlanta had requested the eviction of Vita Lee, a 103-year-old Atlanta woman, and her 83-year-old daughter. Both were terrified of being removed from their home of 53 years and had no idea where they’d go next.
But when the movers hired by the bank and police were dispatched to evict the two women, they had a change of heart. In a huge victory for the 99 Percent, the movers “took one look at” Lee and decided not to go through with it. Watch WSB TV’s Channel 2′s video report about the incident:
The stress of the possible eviction made Lee’s daughter ill; she was rushed to the hospital the same day. Lee had one message for Deutsche Bank: “Please don’t come in and disturb me no more. When I’m gone you all can come back and do whatever they want to.”
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:46pm PT
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How do you live in a house for 53 years, Philo, and not have it paid off?
Is there a 60-year mortgage I don't know about?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 30, 2011 - 04:46pm PT
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I don't know Chaz. Maybe all the years of republican down turned economies caused them to require refinancing to pay for medical care of a 103 year old and an 83 year old. Ya think?
Or are you content to juggle Koch balls?
Hey Fats Vita Lee wasn't moving when ordered to. Should she be gassed?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2011 - 05:59pm PT
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Fatty writes
Karl,
The Fed and it's lending windows are not part of the government. The Fed is the bank to the other banks, the Fed makes a determination if the borrower is worthy and takes collateral on the loan, these are short term loans.
Would you want runs on banks that just need a few days of liquidity??? Just today, the world's largest central (Fed) banks offered short term loans to Europe's largest banks.
Do you wish for 1929?????
Some banks will go under, but better for it to happen in an orderly fashion.
The evil one
Oh come on. You really want to support companies deceiving their shareholders? We already knew things were jacked.
And this BS about the Fed being private? Sure but let's take away their power to create trillions out of nothing with no accountability then!
Geez, it's like trying to defend why rape is wrong
Peace
Karl
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Nov 30, 2011 - 06:09pm PT
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Well, what do you think Fatty?
Obama in a minnie landslide, say over 300 electoral votes?
Or are you thinking a real ass kicking, like the 365 electoral votes he got versus McCain?
And seriously, Jeff, Newt or Mitt, which one do you think will lose to Obama the most?
Your political savvy and opinions are so spot on!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2011 - 06:26pm PT
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This is the thing about OWS, why it's so threatening. It's not the politicians, they are employees. The masters own and rule the money in secret. Duh!
The light is finally shining where we were previously distracted
False info the reasons for invading other countries, secrecy in how our economy and banking system works: a Democracy cannot function under such conditions. Politics has become a shadow game and American Democracy is as good as dead. America has been usurped.
OCCUPY WALL STREET!
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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Nov 30, 2011 - 06:31pm PT
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Human nature being what it is the Occu-poo'ers don't realize that they are
silly and what they're doing is pointless i.e. living in tents filled with
bottles of pee and bags of feces. Not an inspiring message.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Nov 30, 2011 - 06:46pm PT
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Occupy Fatty's family bank
Oh the genetic socialism!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Nov 30, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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How do you live in a house for 53 years, Philo, and not have it paid off?
Is there a 60-year mortgage I don't know about?
H.E.L.O.C.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Nov 30, 2011 - 07:21pm PT
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Wonder what violent act a member of the press like this would take, putting two expensive cameras at risk which most likely are his own and tools that he cannot do his job without, that got him this treatment.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 30, 2011 - 08:07pm PT
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The cops are well-groomed, with
Muscled physiques in Butt Town
Their tan uniforms are tailored in chic
In Butt Town
Any young Black male who walks down the street
Is gonna get stopped by a car full of meat
BUt the girl with the hair
Flies by in her underwear-
She's done nothing so far to deserve that car
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Nov 30, 2011 - 09:11pm PT
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The press are not allowed to break the law.
Oddly enough in America neither are the cops.
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malabarista
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Nov 30, 2011 - 09:20pm PT
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From Bill Herbst:
What will be required to truly shake up things is the abandonment of
civil obedience and the radical shift toward civil disobedience. The only
activities that will provoke real change are those that accelerate collapse by breaking out of passive acceptance through overt challenges to the fetters
of “lawfulness.”
By and large, the Occupy protesters are not currently breaking any laws
or risking significant personal harm. By contrast and for example, refusal
to pay taxes (and thus risk incarceration) would be a real (rather than
symbolic) protest. Simple gathering in public spaces to bitch does not
qualify. All the First Amendment blather aside, such protest is only an
initial baby step---necessary, perhaps, but ineffective.
...
Occupy---and other rebellions of more provocative civil disobedience
likely to follow soon---represents the end of the de facto marginalization
of those who know that radical change is not only necessary but
inevitable, and that such change will very shortly be upon us. This is the
beginning of a broader awareness that the jig is up, that we’ve burned the
candle at both ends, and that the way we live on this planet must change
if humanity is to survive. ...the Occupy uprising---with its
narrow focus on economic inequality, however urgent that may seem---is
definitely not the vehicle for promoting such an encompassing view
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malabarista
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Nov 30, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
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Herbst again...
What’s important about the Occupy uprising is not whether it achieves
the goal of punishing or even restraining the rampant criminality of Wall
Street, since that would require a wholesale purge of the Ruling Elites,
both among those powerful individuals visible to us (such as politicians
and CEOs) and many others exerting influence invisibly from behind the
scenes. Despite the intentions of the protestors, such long-overdue reforms
are now functionally impossible. The orderly “political process” has
neither the power nor the will to initiate, legislate, or enforce any such
sweeping reforms, not as long as the megalithic institutions of commerce
and society remain intact.
What the Occupy uprising can do, however, is to act as a harbinger by
galvanizing a dawning awareness in the larger populace that breakdown
and collapse are indeed coming, right around the corner. This is the
function of the electric cattle prod, to awaken by shock.
There is, as far as I know, hardly any
civil disobedience at all in the viral Occupy phenomenon yet. Everything
about the protests carries the tacit assumption (intentional or not)---or at
least the hope---that a public appeal to authority in government and/or
corporate boardrooms might effect some reform or redress of grievances.
This is a complete fiction. A hopeless fantasy.
I’m not castigating the protesters or accusing anyone in particular of
naivete. People are joining the protests in part because this is the first
collective opportunity that has materialized to vent frustration with the
status quo policies created by those in power. People suffered in silence
up until recently
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malabarista
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Nov 30, 2011 - 09:32pm PT
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Actually it's pure Democracy, which is why Republicans by and large don't get it. Government by the people for the people, instead of by corporations for corporations.
Something is happening here but you don't know what it is... do you Mr. Jones
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