Armed Militia Takes Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge HQ

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JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 3, 2016 - 08:54pm PT
It disappoints me to see this thread gain so many posts so far afield, but even more so to read the vehemence with which we denigrate each other. The idiots occupying the HQ aren't worth the aggravation we're causing each other on this one, guys.

John
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 3, 2016 - 09:03pm PT
There is another story that a possibly different fire he set was to cover up some poaching he did on federal land which they leased for cattle grazing.

The Hammonds slaughtered a herd of either deer or elk, killed at least 7 and injured more according to a witness.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Jan 3, 2016 - 09:13pm PT
The county sheriff had these comments on the subject today.

Harney County Sheriff David M. Ward said authorities from “several organizations” are working to peacefully resolve the standoff, which began Saturday when an unknown number of armed activists occupied an uninhabited building at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, about 30 miles outside the town of Burns, Ore.

“These men came to Harney County claiming to be part of militia groups supporting local ranchers, when in reality these men had alternative motives, to attempt to overthrow the county and federal government in hopes to spark a movement across the United States,” Ward said in a statement Sunday.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oregon-sheriff-says-refuge-occupiers-trying-to-overthrow-government/ar-AAgjul1?li=BBnbfcL

Tonight, ABC News had a short statement from a local pastor, who was greatly offended by "outsiders" trying to stir up trouble.


Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Jan 3, 2016 - 09:15pm PT
The Hammonds slaughtered a herd of either deer or elk, killed at least 7 and injured more according to a witness.

Facts don't bother the Patridiots...
WBraun

climber
Jan 3, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
know it all stuportopo do nothing armed finger wagers hard at work wasting their time again ......
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jan 4, 2016 - 05:17am PT
Ah the good old days. Harken back to when the tobacco industry had completely unfettered access to the American (and World) population without the nuisance interference of the government.

Holy Crap. I seriously hope this was meant for sarcasm......

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Make no mistake, the Bundy crowd are straight up stoopid, but the message and the realities of the Hammond case are 100% legit.

A legal system that allows a US Attorney (who, for the record has long since been fired for inappropriate sexual advances and threatening text messages) to try ranchers in Oregon under some terrorist act as yet another attempt to manage out one of the founding ranches in the area, is broken and needs fixing.
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jan 4, 2016 - 06:21am PT
The Hammonds slaughtered a herd of either deer or elk, killed at least 7 and injured more according to a witness.


Exactly how dependable is an eye witness that can't discern whether the Hammonds killed Elk or Deer?

They also said David Korresh was a pederast once people started asking questions about why the government was encircling some religious nutbags in Texas.
Gary

Social climber
Where in the hell is Major Kong?
Jan 4, 2016 - 06:49am PT
but the message and the realities of the Hammond case are 100% legit.

I'm sorry, but just because they lease some federal land doesn't mean they get to run it like they own it.

As someone said upstream, if you don't want to deal with federal land regulations, don't make your living off of federal land.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jan 4, 2016 - 06:49am PT
the simple reason they have not gotten the same treatment as the Muslims is that they are a bunch of chincen sh#t wimps and with the exception of oklahoma have never actually done anything significant. The muslims on the otherhand are exceptionaly brazen and effective. If these boneheads ever do pull off something reasonably big and efective the feds will take the gloves off. It seems like for now the feds are trying to keep this low key and small.
Dave

Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
Jan 4, 2016 - 06:53am PT
"The way the story reads it was a bit more then just setting fire to 140 acres. There was a burning ban at the time because of the dangers of the drought."

That never stopped the forest circus. Do we see any of them in jail?
Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jan 4, 2016 - 07:07am PT

I'm sorry, but just because they lease some federal land doesn't mean they get to run it like they own it.

As someone said upstream, if you don't want to deal with federal land regulations, don't make your living off of federal land

If you educate yourself on the history of the Hammond Ranch, you will discover that the feds have basically coerced or simply bought out all the surrounding property and have been butt-hurt over the fact that the Hammonds (one of the original settlers of the area) didn't sell out and have been putting the squeeze on these people for decades.

When you dig into the history of some of these cases the tactics and systematic harassment gets lost in the cacophony of the final "act". No different than many other things, it allows .gov to pit citizens against each other while they pull the puppet strings and continue their march. With a couple of you on here goose stepping in the front.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 4, 2016 - 07:21am PT
Sort of like the last Nevada BLM insurrection:

According to records obtained by Reveal, two ranching families at the center of the Battle Mountain protests received $2.2 million from a federal drought disaster relief program.

Nevada ranchers collect drought subsidies while denying the drought

All these folks are all suckling at the federal teat and simply want to do so with no oversight or restrictions.

P.S. And if management of BLM lands were going to be turned over to the 'locals', those locals by all rights would be the tribes who were pushed off of many of them despite treaties.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jan 4, 2016 - 07:23am PT
Escopeta posted

If you educate yourself on the history of the Hammond Ranch, you will discover that the feds have basically coerced or simply bought out all the surrounding property and have been butt-hurt over the fact that the Hammonds (one of the original settlers of the area) didn't sell out and have been putting the squeeze on these people for decades.

When you dig into the history of some of these cases the tactics and systematic harassment gets lost in the cacophony of the final "act". No different than many other things, it allows .gov to pit citizens against each other while they pull the puppet strings and continue their march. With a couple of you on here goose stepping in the front.

How come when the government exploits and assaults people of color (i.e. Ferguson) the resulting protests are dismissed as riotous, ineffective and misplaced but when the government allegedly bullies white people anyone criticizing the resulting armed assault on a government building isn't educated enough and is "goose stepping?"
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Jan 4, 2016 - 07:37am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

I knew it. "God" told him to do it
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 4, 2016 - 07:46am PT
... the history of some of these cases the tactics and systematic harassment gets lost ...



So where is MIA list?
franky

Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
Jan 4, 2016 - 07:52am PT
The federal government often manages land in such a way that isn't favorable for short term ranching interests.

This does not mean the government is anti-ranching. It results from the government having other priorities like the long term sustainability of the landscape, tourism, wildlife management, etc.

Federal land acquisition in the rural west relies on willing sellers. I'm sure it is heartbreaking to sell a ranch, but the reality is that many ranches sold to the federal government are not profitable as cattle ranches, and only survived as long as they did because of federal subsidy.

To me, the people barricaded in the headquarters represent the delusional few who think the best way to manage arid western land is to extract everything of value as quickly as possible. We should be thankful that federal land ownership prevents western landscapes from suffering at their hands.

We should simultaneously encourage constructive partnerships aimed at sustainable land uses specific to the region in question.


Escopeta

Trad climber
Idaho
Jan 4, 2016 - 07:53am PT
How come when the government exploits and assaults people of color (i.e. Ferguson) the resulting protests are dismissed as riotous, ineffective and misplaced but when the government allegedly bullies white people anyone criticizing the resulting armed assault on a government building isn't educated enough and is "goose stepping?"

Forgive me, the Ferguson Riots occurred before such time as I graced the pages of SuperTopo with the gift of my opinion. But I would have opined that while the civil disobedience methods are quite different, the underlying claims of both have significant merit.

While I enjoy a good hijack more than the next fellow, and having grown up in the bosom of good 'ole Ferguson Missouri, I relish any opportunity for discourse regarding Ferguson and the state of law enforcement in 'Murica. I would prefer to stay on topic as the full scope of the Hammond case is enlightening.
zBrown

Ice climber
Jan 4, 2016 - 07:56am PT
Apparently it has taken the govt 45 years to finally get the figure four leg lock on the Hammonds.


The Hammonds hold grazing rights on Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land and own private grazing acres intermingled with BLM land in the Steens Mountains. For 45 years, the Hammonds have used their BLM grazing rights and private property to run a successful operation. But now, their operation is being threatened not only by criminal and civil charges brought by the federal government, but with the loss of their grazing permits, as well. The BLM has refused to renew their grazing permits for two years running.

...

The fire later spread to approximately 139 acres of public land, land that happened to be one of Hammond’s grazing allotments. The Hammonds presented evidence that the spread onto public land was not intentional. However, back in 1999, a similar scenario had occurred (a prescribed burn on their land spread to public land), and the Hammonds had been warned that they would face serious consequences should it happen again


From a sympathetic publication



http://www.tsln.com/news/17302049-113/story.html
franky

Trad climber
Black Hills, SD
Jan 4, 2016 - 08:06am PT
zBrown, that article is actually pretty well written. The one thing that shows it's relatively minor bias is that they simply state the BLM refused to renew the grazing permit.

It seems likely that the BLM likely had a good reason to do that. The article makes it seem arbitrary.

The case of the Hammond family is actually interesting and important. The rest of it is pathetic.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 4, 2016 - 08:08am PT
While I tend to agree our federal government is perhaps one of the worst band of murderous criminals in the world this particular situation in Oregon seems to have no merit for changing any of that.

First off, the father and son are willingly heading to prison. I'm not sure what these other guys "holding the refuge" are holding out for...


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