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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 23, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
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Since I've been on the road lo these many weeks I'm not fully up to speed on
the latest machinations hereabouts. Has the SuperTopo Robespierre Chowder
and Marching Society endorsed Hillary yet or are they going down the Path of
Futile Righteousness and holding out for Elizabeth?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 23, 2015 - 01:38pm PT
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Carly Fiorina reminds me of a pole vaulter that misses twice at opening height, and passes to the next height to get three more chances. When she misses twice, she passes again. She has yet to clear one political bar. In any case, I have a very difficult time seeing how someone with zero government experience has the qualifications for President. Undeterred by my skepticism, she plans to announce her candidacy. The nerve!
;>)
John
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Apr 23, 2015 - 01:58pm PT
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Don't know if this has been posted. I'm too lazy to scroll through the whole thread, but it sure as sh#t made me laugh.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 23, 2015 - 02:12pm PT
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" I would probably find a moderate Demoncrat to be more palatable than whatever is going to emerge from the Rebumblecon primary process."
So who would you consider to be a 'moderate Demoncrat' who is considering throwing their hat into the ring?
Of those who are in the buzz right now (Sanders, Hillary, Warren, that Green Party woman, etc.) Hillary is definitely the most moderate in terms of overall agendas. Sanders & Warren are considered to be pretty far lefties.
You may not like her personality & history, but her platform is about the most moderate of them all...hell, she ran to the right of Obama, remember?
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More Air
Trad climber
S.L.C.
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Apr 23, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 23, 2015 - 02:59pm PT
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You may not like her personality & history, but her platform is about the most moderate of them all
The problem is that her "personality and history" indicate that her platform is a chimera. Who knows what this woman is? What I am confident of, however, is that she sees herself as above the law and above accountability. That pretty well nullifies "her platform" to me.
Reilly, you made me laugh out loud again. You have a particular turn of phrase that repeatedly hits my funny bone.
John, worth a wry chuckle as well. Kudos
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 23, 2015 - 02:59pm PT
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Of those who are in the buzz right now (Sanders, Hillary, Warren, that Green Party woman, etc.) Hillary is definitely the most moderate in terms of overall agendas. Sanders & Warren are considered to be pretty far lefties.
Agree, Apogee, and this is her great strength. Her positions are close enough to the center on enough issues and she has sufficient negotiating ability to form a real consensus on governance, which is the big weakness of the current administration, and also of candidates like Ted Cruz. If the Democrats nominate her, the Republicans will have a tough time unless their nominee has similar abilities. Then the other aspects of "Clinton Fatigue" could be her undoing.
A Cruz/Clinton battle would be a Republican bloodbath, in my opinion. A Bush/Clinton battle would be a big disappointment to the American public. Someone like Marco Rubio, on the other hand, could make it a very interesting contest.
John
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little Z
Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:06pm PT
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Crankloons
good name for a climb, now get out there and put it up
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:15pm PT
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"Who knows what this woman is?"
I never would have guessed that Bush 2 would have been as devious as he had been. Welcome to politics.
"What I am confident of, however, is that she sees herself as above the law and above accountability."
Funny thing about that...when it's a politician that one supports, the tactics they use get brushed aside as political maneuvering...even ignored outright.
But when it's a politician that we don't like, those same maneuvers get called as dirty or illegal.
The common thread: It's Politics.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
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^^
TW, the Mind Thread - that's where we go to get frozen. Here, you're just Mr. Sunshine having a very bad day.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:35pm PT
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Funny thing about that...when it's a politician that one supports, the tactics they use get brushed aside as political maneuvering...even ignored outright.
But when it's a politician that we don't like, those same maneuvers get called as dirty or illegal.
The common thread: It's Politics.
I "get" that, but I don't accept it. "Politics" just gets dirtier and dirtier, and the bar just gets lower and lower for personal integrity. I am in NO sense being "partisan" to despise Hillary. I DESPISED Bush II before her!
When these jerks (of any party) start acting like they are not accountable to US at all moments of every day, they need to be gone. This is not corporate America, and corporations enjoy a legal privilege to be "thought of" as "persons." But WE THE PEOPLE are innately persons, and it is to US that these "representatives" answer first and foremost.
The "partisan" bickering in this dirty, vilifying context among AMERICANS is what keeps us from being an essentially united America.
If we would put aside "partisan" assessments and start assessing candidates on a record of CEO-level competency, integrity, and demonstrated desire to serve the rule of law, we could perhaps get some candidates whose actual politics (platforms) would matter.
Such candidates did exist in the dimly distant past. Their "bickering" today seems downright laughable and sophomoric.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:37pm PT
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Writers cramp. locker..TW kinda rolls off the fingers.
Edit: To be honest, TW gets pretty boring. How do you debate with the 9/11 Truther crowd? I've never seen anything the guy has posted that wasn't sheer nonsense.
keeps us from being an essentially united America. Have you spent much time traveling around the US? Are you a follower of politics? It's clear to me the voters are partisan, they elected the tea party goons to office that are ruining the country.
We are not now and are never going to be "unified". Sides are drawn and very few people change sides, ever.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:48pm PT
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Yeah, "despise" is a strong word. It's actually tough for me to know how to cast the mix of emotions I feel. It's something akin to disgust and despise, though.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
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""Politics" just gets dirtier and dirtier, and the bar just gets lower and lower for personal integrity."
Yeah, well, I'm not so sure personal integrity has changed a helluva lot in politicians over the last 200 years, but the partisanship & political process sure has.
I still think that a lot of politicians (most, maybe) do have a desire to lead responsibly and ethically (whatever the hell that is), but the political process is just so retarded that it's impossible to do their jobs in an honest, forthcoming manner. Anyone who even tries doesn't get very far before they are gutted and left behind.
Of course, anyone who would subject themselves to today's political process has gotta be a little (lot) touched in the head to start with. It's all relative, and it's all politics. You want honesty & integrity? Become a Buddhist monk.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:55pm PT
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^^^DMT for the win!!!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:56pm PT
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Of course, anyone who would subject themselves to today's political process has gotta be a little (lot) touched in the head to start with.
SO true, and well stated!
The process now does not cause the cream to rise to the top; it causes other kinds of "floaters" to rise.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:57pm PT
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They reward the worst behaviors.
NAILED it!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 23, 2015 - 04:05pm PT
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Funny about "politics." I think what the politicians learned from Watergate is to destroy the tapes. 40 years ago, we found that sort of behavior reprehensible. Now we call it par for the course. We can blame "politics" or "politicians," but we should be looking in the mirror.
John
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 23, 2015 - 04:07pm PT
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We are not now and are never going to be "unified". Sides are drawn and very few people change sides, ever.
I'm not talking about "sides" in the sense of platforms and publicly-stated agendas.
I'm talking about the party divide that keeps us from honestly, systematically, and in NON-partisan fashion assessing the basic integrity (accountability and abiding by the rule of law) of our putative representatives.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Apr 23, 2015 - 04:17pm PT
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I think what the politicians learned from Watergate is to destroy the tapes.
Exactly.
Now, "Hillary destroys the drives," and our response is: "So what. Any 'scandal' is really just politics. Everybody has done what she's done. Even Jeb had multiple email accounts."
MY attitude is: IF it's true that all the current candidates have done as she has done, then NONE of them are fit for office. I don't care about "party" or platform when it comes to this sort of thing. I'm not singling Hillary out for special condemnation IF the case can be made that everybody else has done as she did.
I haven't looked into it, but a thought just crossed my pea-brain, and I'm thinking out loud (dangerous): What if they held an election and nobody voted? What if we somehow sent a message to the party bosses that we the people find NONE of their offerings acceptable, and they can start their lame process over and produce some candidates that are minimally qualified AND that have demonstrated integrity?
John, maybe you are up on what the constitutional repercussions would be in the short term. I'm curious and will look into what would happen, because I don't think the founders contemplated that such a thing even COULD occur. Just a thought experiment. LOL
You know, effectively a vote of no confidence in the present PROCESS.
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