The New "Religion Vs Science" Thread

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jogill

climber

Colorado

Apr 16, 2019 - 01:47pm PT

Good to see this thread hasn't been locked yet. But the option of going directly to the last page is faulty. At least for me.

edit: maybe not I just tried it and it worked.

Trump

climber

Apr 17, 2019 - 12:33pm PT

The world is perfect, it’s just that we’re other worldly. We’re just special that way.

The breakers who think they’re the fixers and break the world are part of this world that is and has always been perfect. But is broken by the breakers. Yet doesn’t need fixing.

You wouldn’t understand, but I do. I’m just special that way.

Don Paul

Social climber

Washington DC

Apr 17, 2019 - 01:20pm PT

Now that we know this thread won't get chopped we can get into some of the more controversial subjects. Such as, what is the real reason the Catholic Church has thousands and thousands of child rape cases?

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Apr 19, 2019 - 02:13pm PT

Try this: look up how many hospitals, clinics, schools, facilities for higher education the Catholic church has constructed/built world wide then look up how many Catholics there actually are and then find out exactly how many Nuns, Brothers, Priests, Bishops and Cardinals there are and then compare those figures and that understanding to the number of molestations there have been. No doubt one is one too many. But come on, how come nobody mentions the tremendous amount of good the church has done in this world? Seems to me there is a remarkable amount of accepted prejudice against the church: why?

So sorry to see the changes occurring at ST, though I can't seem to get around here much anymore. Really sorry to hear DMT is no longer here. Good guy. Like many here I've always enjoyed this and the mind thread. Hope they remain.

BASE104

Social climber

An Oil Field

Apr 19, 2019 - 03:25pm PT

The Catholic Church is stuffed with boy molesters because of their silly requirement of celibacy. History has proved that men have great difficulty going without some form of sex. All those altar boys must be pretty tempting to a truly perverted mind, and celibacy can exacerbate this.

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Apr 19, 2019 - 04:00pm PT

"Stuffed" is a term that means little except exaggeration in this case. The issue is really to what degree the church is discredited by those molestations that do occur. Molesters should be weeded out or the rules for celibacy should be changed, fine. But the Catholic church has done considerable good in the world and of that there can be no doubt. And it seems so many are willing to ignore that completely.

Ward Trotter

Trad climber

Apr 20, 2019 - 12:09pm PT

As if someone willing to break society's rules by molesting children would steadfastly obey or worry about in-house rules enforcing celibacy; or allow such celibacy to form their physical or psychological condition.

jogill

climber

Colorado

Apr 20, 2019 - 03:27pm PT

Church membership in America is down to 50%. Most decline appearing in the Catholic Church. Most young people are not church goers (no surprise there).

And I just heard of a young woman who was molested by her Imam and accused him and would not retract her statement being set on fire and burned to death. Brunei now has a law stoning to death gays.

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Apr 20, 2019 - 05:42pm PT

Church membership in America is down to 50%. Most decline appearing in the Catholic Church. Most young people are not church goers (no surprise there).

There are an estimated 1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world, according to Vatican figures. More than 40% of the world's Catholics live in Latin America - but Africa has seen the biggest growth in Catholic congregations in recent years. 1.2 billion is still a remarkable number. There are over 466,000 priests if you include the ministerial priesthood. That a percentage of them are going to be bad seems a given. I'm not sure why there is such a willingness to disparage the church without really understanding the numbers and scope of what it does. And of course the good it does, over 5000 hospitals, etc.

WBraun

climber

Apr 20, 2019 - 05:45pm PT

The Catholic Church is a criminal enterprise and guilty for 600 years of rape and genocide all over the planet.

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Apr 20, 2019 - 06:04pm PT

The Catholic Church is a criminal enterprise and guilty for 600 years of rape and genocide all over the planet.

Great, so tomorrow let's close all those hospitals and clinics and schools because bad people did bad things. A person isn't bad because they're a Catholic they're bad because they are bad.

WBraun

climber

Apr 20, 2019 - 07:35pm PT

No

The upper hierarchy of the Catholic church is a criminal enterprise.

Has nothing to do with schools and hospitals.

jogill

climber

Colorado

Apr 20, 2019 - 08:45pm PT

"I'm not sure why there is such a willingness to disparage the church without really . . ."

Paul, I was not disparaging the Catholic religion. Just citing some figures I saw a day or so ago. However, I seem to recall the greatest decline in the USA was the Church.

August West

Trad climber

Where the wind blows strange

Apr 20, 2019 - 09:03pm PT

and then compare those figures and that understanding to the number of molestations there have been. No doubt one is one too many. But come on, how come nobody mentions the tremendous amount of good the church has done in this world? Seems to me there is a remarkable amount of accepted prejudice against the church: why?

Bad people can show up anywhere and do bad things. If that was all that it was, it would be one thing.

But higher ups knew about some of the bad behavior. Did they turn the person over to the cops. No. Did they kick them out of the church. No.

They re-assigned them to another parish so they could keep on abusing kids.

Protecting the Church brand was more important than protecting kids.

Let that one sink in again.

That is why they deserve to be raked over the coals and bankrupted in lawsuits.

And as far as my general prejudice against the church, it isn't limited to Catholics or Christians. I don't like institutions telling people lies in the name of faith.

MikeL

Social climber

Southern Arizona

Apr 21, 2019 - 07:27am PT

August,

At least you admit to your prejudice, even if you're unwilling to do anything about it.

Faith comes in many guises. Religion is one. Every organization relies upon the faith of its followers that it knows what it's doing--and for a "good" purpose.

What organization should not be "raked over the coals?"

sempervirens

climber

Apr 21, 2019 - 08:53am PT

Faith comes in many guises. Religion is one. Every organization relies upon the faith of its followers that it knows what it's doing--and for a "good" purpose.

What organization should not be "raked over the coals?"

Religion is unique because of the blind faith. Therefore, it's not directly comparable to other organizations. There lies the guilt of religions.

sempervirens

climber

Apr 21, 2019 - 09:16am PT

Great, so tomorrow let's close all those hospitals and clinics and schools because bad people did bad things. A person isn't bad because they're a Catholic they're bad because they are bad.

Religion is responsible for both good and evil. Yes.
Science is responsible for both good and evil. Yes.
Other organizations, humans, doctrines are also responsible for good and evil.

Here's the difference:
Religion demands adherence and denies questioning. Religion refuses to be tested. It enforces this with threats and sometimes with evil actions.

If we throw away religion we can keep the hospitals, all the good things its done, all the wisdom. And we can let the blind faith die. We've kept wisdom of the ancients without having blind faith in them. Treat the holy books as literature and we can keep all the wisdom while dropping the brain washing. Religion is not the only source of good, of hospitals, charities, wisdom, etc. So we can still have all that without religion. Then we can drop all the evil that religion is responsible for.

Wars. Religion is responsible for many wars, not all, but many. Yes, war is often fought for other reasons, like wealth and power. But what if the fighters are not motivated to fight? How will the powerful people convince them to fight? They use the religion, you must fight or face the religious consequences. Once the populace accepts the blind faith it's much easier to get them motivated to do the evil acts of war, rape, etc.

Science, in contrast demands testing , questioning, and repeatable results.