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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Oct 26, 2016 - 12:32pm PT
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I've concluded the overall instances of true fraud (dead people voting, people voting multiple times, etc) are pretty rare. However, I've also concluded that there are cases where election officials, especially Secretaries of State, have found ways to affect election outcomes (see 2000 and 2004 prez races and the Florida and Ohio Secy's of State, respectively...)
An irony, though, is that since the national races are indeed run state-by-state, it's pretty hard to imagine a scenario where widespread 'rigging' could occur, especially when you look into the wide array of voting machines/processes that are used. BUT, when the election is very close (see parentheses above), a change in one state can make the difference (and did).
I am in favor of going back to paper ballots and old-fashioned scanners. We would always have a paper trail in those cases (as long as some of those ballots didn't somehow get 'lost').
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Oct 26, 2016 - 01:16pm PT
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"I am in favor of going back to paper ballots and old-fashioned scanners. We would always have a paper trail in those cases (as long as some of those ballots didn't somehow get 'lost')."
At the polling center I was earlier this week, the electronic voting tablets printed out a paper copy as well that was being kept for auditing purposes.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Oct 26, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
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especially Secretaries of State, have found ways to affect election outcomes (see 2000 and 2004 prez races and the Florida and Ohio Secy's of State, respectively...)
From my side of the aisle, I think of the Washington gubenatorial race and the Frankentheft. That's why we need to take allegations of voting irregularities seriously. As if we don't have enough to worry about in the contemporary U.S., allegations of illegitimate election winners can poison democracy.
I find it remarkable how, in 1960, Nixon asked investigative reporters not to delve further into Illinois and Texas voting irregularities, even though a great many investigators are convinced that absent voter fraud, Nixon would have won in 1960. He said that further investigation at that stage of events would divide the country when it needed to unite behind a new president. We always think of Nixon as the archtypical amoral politician, but I doubt that Trump or Clinton would do the same now.
John
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Oct 26, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
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It happens but probably not in huge numbers enough to sway big elections. It happened to me during the last presidential race. Went in to vote and the lady behind the desk looked my name up and it was crossed off and signed for. I complained and she made me show an ID to prove I was who I said I was which I thought was ironic.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Oct 26, 2016 - 01:38pm PT
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Some machines produce a paper record but some don't.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 26, 2016 - 01:45pm PT
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Mistakes are probably a bigger problem than fraud.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 26, 2016 - 02:06pm PT
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The primary occurrence of large-scale 'voting fraud' over the past decade has been and remains - without any doubt whatsoever - the concerted efforts by red states to suppress and disenfranchise minority voters by any and all possible means.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Oct 26, 2016 - 02:44pm PT
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Since my experience a few years ago I have changed my view on voters showing an ID.
I just don't see how requiring an ID would disenfranchise voters of any population. The person who voted for me wasn't required to show an ID but I was required to prove that someone stole my vote. What's the argument for not requiring an ID to vote?
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 26, 2016 - 02:47pm PT
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A lot of American citizens, disproportionately African Americans--don't or can't get it.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Oct 26, 2016 - 02:56pm PT
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They all have some form of ID, in this day and age I think that argument doesn't hold water. 20-30 years ago I could see that being the case. I'm a firefighter paramedic and work in some of the poorest neighborhoods in So California and I have never had a patient tell me they don't have an ID of some sort, they may not have it with them at the time but I have never been told that they don't own one. Even the homeless population readily produced a photo ID when asked.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Oct 26, 2016 - 03:59pm PT
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They all have some form of ID, in this day and age I think that argument doesn't hold water. 20-30 years ago I could see that being the case. I'm a firefighter paramedic and work in some of the poorest neighborhoods in So California and I have never had a patient tell me they don't have an ID of some sort, they may not have it with them at the time but I have never been told that they don't own one. Even the homeless population readily produced a photo ID when asked.
Agreed, and it's hard to imagine why certain segments of the population are so vehemently in favor of being able to vote without showing any legitimate ID other than that they'd like to engage in a little (or a lot) of voter fraud.
If there's a problem with people getting IDs, let's solve that problem -- not let people vote without showing that they have the right to do so.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 26, 2016 - 04:46pm PT
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Dingus, coming from a hand jockey, isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black? Lets all get along. Poor Locker is getting old. Last time I climbed with him, he couldn't remember sh#t...
I would say there is allot more then voter fraud going on. the guy that served the papers to the DNC on voter fraud orchestrated by Bernie backers, he was killed mysteriously, and now guess what, the DNC is claiming they weren't served properly, thus delaying the outcome until after the election. Interesting huh? and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/10/25/awakened-humanity-awaits-fully-scripted-ending-election/
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Oct 26, 2016 - 07:26pm PT
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Voter fraud is the new states rights. It's just dog whistle racist bullsh#t. I'm sure there will be a lot of poll "monitoring" by Trump supporters, all in minority populated precincts in swing states of course.
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couchmaster
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2016 - 12:36pm PT
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#1 thing Americans are scared of? Here's the whole list, but corrupt government is #1. And it looks like in some ways as the government gets larger there are more opportunity for corruption. Computerized voting machines would be on that list if it was broken out I would suspect. The Morning Consol and Vox both reported similar results of "What are Americans Afraid of" in their polls.
Corrupt government - 61 per cent
Clowns - 42 per cent
Terrorist attack - 41 per cent
Gun rights infringement - 38 per cent
Family members dying - 38 per cent
Economic collapse - 37 per cent
Obamacare - 36 per cent
Biological warfare - 35 per cent
Climate change - 32 per cent
Heights - 24 per cent
Dying - 19 per cent
Needles - 17 per cent
Spousal cheating - 10 per cent
Ghosts - 9 per cent
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3876534/Americans-scared-clowns-Obamacare-climate-change-new-polls-show.html
Evidently "Nuclear War" wasn't an option. Hard to believe it wouldn't be on the list.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Oct 27, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
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Jah Man = Cosmic
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 27, 2016 - 02:09pm PT
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The whole election is one big fraud period.
Just one look at these corrupt candidates reveals it.
And Americans actually fall for this stupid sh!t.
This proves the corrupt controlled main loon media outlets are doing their jobs controlling and brainwashing ......
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 27, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
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#1 thing Americans are scared of? Corrupt government.
Most of that is due to the relentless deployment of irrational anti-government memes by the gop with the express purpose of building indignation and resentment (mostly on social issues) sufficient to allow them to dismantle government oversight and regulation of corporations which, in that vacuum, would be indistinguishable from organized crime.
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